He’s Watching

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  DJ Black Adam said,

  O.K., explain this one to me. Our founding fathers of this great nation, owned slaves, stole from the Native Americans, etc., etc. AND you claim somehow they “sought divine guidance”? From which God may I ask, as the God I serve, Jesus’ dad, might have some problems with the “founders” fluid morality?

  Seriously, I understand you identify yourself as a Conservative, but you folks might want to realize that “conservative” is not synonymous with Christian.

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  admin said,

  Hi, DJ – I can’t speak for the author of this article, but here are my thoughts.

  Out of a beautifully written article, you seize on the one thing that can in some remote way be made into a negative. She concedes that the founding fathers were not perfect.

  I am not one to judge anyone’s relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or His Son, Jesus, but I’m just sayin’…where is your head, man? Are you so jaded that you cannot forgive someone who lived 240 years ago? Have you forgiven the Africans who sold their own into slavery? Or are white folks just too convenient a target? Forgiveness is Christian “trait,” if you will, but I am not willing to write you off as not being saved because you are bitter. That matter is between you an Christ.

  And just who were the early and historically consistent anti-slavery/anti-segregation activists? I’ll give you a hint: their party does not begin with”D.”

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  admin said,

  Oh, what I started out to say DJ, is that – you missed the point of the article altogether…

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  DJ Black Adam said,

  AAdmin:

  I don’t think I said anything untrue about the founding fathers, it is not a matter of “forgiveness” it is a matter of factual context. For anyone to act as if this nation or its leaders are “Christian” as in being examples of Christ is intellectual fraudulent and disingenous.

  If you want to call to thr ethos of the great founding fathers, then do so, but don’t be suprised when someone questions that,

  As far as my faith, I really don’t care what you think, but what I do care about is how the right acts like they have the word “Christian” copyrighted.

  The article brings up “free speech” and “squasing” it for example. I find that almost hypocritical coming from the right. I am not a liberal, but, I am not a conservative for the same reason, that being, neither can see reality past there silly and simple regimented worldviews.

  I got the point of the article, I just disagree with it. Your snide attack at my faith only exxemplifies MU overall point.

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  admin said,

  DJ – You look at this as the glass being half empty. I have seen your posts on CBW’s blog. I try not to take other people’s inventory, but it is so clear from your postings that you have a chip on your shoulder. That kind of thing usually comes from a person’s perception of having been slighted in some way or in some cases a sense of entitlement. That is where my comment about forgiveness comes from.

  My comment was not meant to be “snide.” To the contrary! I am calling it as I see it, and if I am wrong, I apologize.

  Another thing, I will call as I see is: you did not get the point of the article at all…you were so busy nitpicking it that you completely overlooked the point!

  Here is the real point: This is a crushing time of egos, tempers and people saying things to each other that they ought not say – Christians included. We need all be reminded that God our Father IS WATCHING, and no doubt He doesn’t like what He sees! It really doesn’t matter how the author came to the conclusion.

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  msnana said,

  @ DJ Black
  I appreciate it that you took the time to both read and comment on my article.Thank you. Now here’s something about me. I am the descendant of slaves and close Native American heritage. If anyone should have an axe to grind it could be me, but what will that accomplish?

  Here’s what I have learned from being an ordained minister. God forgives. We cannot go back and change slavery or any wrong from the past. What we can do is try to guarantee that the foundation that America was built upon (no matter how flawed the human hands) will be there for our children.

  I believe with all my heart that God had a hand in the greatness that is America and you cannot convince me otherwise. We all have free will and what I choose to do is not forget past wrongs but forgive them as I hope that I am forgiven. Don’t fool yourself,God has a problem with all of us. That is why Jesus had to come here in the first place.

  Now,even if everyone was not considered at first in the constitution, people of color, women and every immigrant turned citizen are all in it together now. First though, someone had to write that constitution and make it possible for that to eventually happen. The founders have my thanks and respect.

  Going forward from there, I am living in the here and now and right now we’re getting a lot of things wrong and if we do not get it right, you, me and all of us will regret it. Oh and Donna is right, republicans not democrats fought for our initial freedoms. That is fact! And no, conservative is not synonymous with christian. I never said that, nor do I believe it. Thanks again.

  Rene

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  msnana said,

  @Donna Thanks sister!

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  DJ Black Adam said,

  Admin:

  “DJ – You look at this as the glass being half empty.”

  Just because I see threw the hyperbole of the Right doesn’t mean I am a pessimistic person, I just don’t fall for their brand of fearmongering and misdirection.

  You wrote: “I have seen your posts on CBW’s blog. I try not to take other people’s inventory, but it is so clear from your postings that you have a chip on your shoulder.”

  My only chip, is that people on the right seem to think they know what they don’t.

  You add: “That kind of thing usually comes from a person’s perception of having been slighted in some way or in some cases a sense of entitlement.”

  Really, and what do you think I feel “slighted” about or “entitled” to? I guess I do feel “slighted” that with 3 honorable discharges serving in the Marine Corps and the Air Force, working hard through college and becoming a productive member of society people who don’t know me feel “entitled” the need to say I have that I have a sense of “entitlement” because I support Health Care Reform, Freedom of Religion, new and better bank regulations, President Obama, etc. that somehow I am a “pessimist” or somehow feel “slighted” by White folks because I point out the inconsistencies in the founding fathers ethics and morality.

  You wrote: “My comment was not meant to be “snide.” To the contrary! I am calling it as I see it, and if I am wrong, I apologize.”

  Don’t apologize for what you believe or how “you see it”.

  “…that you completely overlooked the point!”

  Really? do tell…

  And you do: “Here is the real point: This is a crushing time of egos, tempers and people saying things to each other that they ought not say – Christians included. We need all be reminded that God our Father IS WATCHING, and no doubt He doesn’t like what He sees! It really doesn’t matter how the author came to the conclusion.”

  Really, I agree, I don’t think he likes what he sees from Christians who believe that being Christian is somehow synonymous or congruent with being a conservative, which in many (as many as liberalism)points completely operates in diametric opposition to the teachings of Christ and the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

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  DJ Black Adam said,

  @Rene:

  You wrote: “Now here’s something about me. I am the descendant of slaves and close Native American heritage. If anyone should have an axe to grind it could be me, but what will that accomplish?”

  First, I am African America, with Jewish ancestry threw Beta Israel in Ethiopia, Cree Indians from near the Canadian Border, but also with ancestry from Scotland and Italy.

  Now that we have our pedigrees out of he way, I am curious as to why you felt that was important? I don’t recall saying that we should be grinding an axe? Why do Black conservatives feel the need to always clarify that whenever the subject of slavery comes up or the genocide of the native American people comes up?

  Like I said to the Admin, I am not a liberal, I am not looking for reparations, I think that the problems within the African American community that we have NOW need to be addressed from within; in fact, I don’t have a problem with many conservative ideas regarding personal responsibility, my problems wit conservative ideology is the lack of social responsibility and there pathological need to alleviate corporate responsibility to near criminal levels.

  You continue with: “Here’s what I have learned from being an ordained minister. God forgives. We cannot go back and change slavery or any wrong from the past.”

  Well, I have an ordination myself, a couple actually, and forgiveness is conditional to REPENTANCE. In my observation there has been little or none in this country for many things that it has done.

  You go on with: “What we can do is try to guarantee that the foundation that America was built upon (no matter how flawed the human hands) will be there for our children.”

  I question what “foundation” it is you speak of? This country is a secular nation, to my best knowledge this country was founded on democracy and free market principles, secular humanism. I don’t see the name of JESUS anywhere in the constitution or bill of rights.

  You wrote: “I believe with all my heart that God had a hand in the greatness that is America and you cannot convince me otherwise.”

  Well as one ordained minister to another, convince me that God has had this “hand”. I’ve looked at the Bible, and I don’t see “America” coming up from Genesis to Revelation (and I have the Ethiopian Text so I even larger canon and more books to look at)

  You wrote: “We all have free will and what I choose to do is not forget past wrongs but forgive them as I hope that I am forgiven.”

  Again, forgiveness is not the issue, my pointing out those things was to put things in its true context, not in this mythical view of the founding fathers some folks seem to have. Sure, they were human like you and I, and honestly, from George Washington to Barack Obama, some were great, some were small, in general, I do not see many if any who operated as if they truly had revelation of Christ Jesus.

  You conclude with: “Don’t fool yourself,God has a problem with all of us. That is why Jesus had to come here in the first place.”

  True, however; my point was not to say that any of us are beyond sin, my point was to speak to the reality that our country if no more or less operating under the precepts of Christ that any other Western nation has.

  Now,even if everyone was not considered at first in the constitution, people of color, women and every immigrant turned citizen are all in it together now. First though, someone had to write that constitution and make it possible for that to eventually happen. The founders have my thanks and respect.

  Going forward from there, I am living in the here and now and right now we’re getting a lot of things wrong and if we do not get it right, you, me and all of us will regret it. Oh and Donna is right, republicans not democrats fought for our initial freedoms. That is fact! And no, conservative is not synonymous with christian. I never said that, nor do I believe it. Thanks again.

  Rene

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  DJ Black Adam said,

  Sorry Rene, I pasted without responding to this:

  “Now,even if everyone was not considered at first in the constitution, people of color, women and every immigrant turned citizen are all in it together now. First though, someone had to write that constitution and make it possible for that to eventually happen. The founders have my thanks and respect.”

  They have my respect to, like I said, I served this country as a Marine and in the Air Force. I am really getting a bit frustrated with conservatives who feel like any critism of this nation is somehow disrespect? If served to PROTECT peoples RIGHT to speak their minds, even if I do not agree, why does the RIGHT have such a problem with that?

  I wrote: “Going forward from there, I am living in the here and now and right now we’re getting a lot of things wrong and if we do not get it right, you, me and all of us will regret it.”

  Why the all of a sudden concern, were you this concerned under Bush? just asking….

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  admin said,

  Whoa, DJ… methinks thou dost protest too much…
  Your chip is showing…you might want to find a nice place in the garden to drop it…

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  DJ Black Adam said,

  @Admin:

  Verily, I am merely responding point by point. Nonetheless, I will have to digress, my contempt for the greed and selfishness of the right, is truly getting to me. I think I am going to have to take a break from all “conservative” blogs, more than even I can endure…

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  msnana said,

  @DJ Black
  I brought up pedigree because you brought up slavery as if the writer did not know about slavery.

  You wrote:Why all of a sudden concern, were you this concerned under Bush.

  Actually I was concerned under Bush about some things, quite a few really. I do not blindly follow anyone. I have eyes to see and I do a lot of looking. I also do not not think that America is some of kind of righteous theocracy but it is far better than most places on this planet.That is why I said what I said.I feel we are about to blow it.

  I respect the office of the president,agree or not. I stand by the constitution as written. I respect my fellow man. I believe in God and I am conservative. I believe we have veered way off the path of the founders and more importantly the Creator. I still say He’s watching us all.

  Thanks for sharing brother.

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  admin said,

  Blessings to you, DJ…

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